June 12, 2005
Commentary: , Personal: , Quotes:
Whither us in a time where the indefensible is defended at any and all costs?
By Jack GrantAlthough I have enjoyed the Star Wars movies, I am far from thinking that George Lucas is a deep thinker, nor do I feel he is one of the great artists of our age. He accidentally touched upon a nerve at the right time, just as Gene Roddenberry did in creating Star Trek, they both provided avenues of escape from an unpleasant reality to millions who were disenchanted and disconnected with the world around them.
However, I find rather insightful and particularly relevant at the moment one quote from the final movie in the Star Wars series, Return of the Jedi, a movie I find to be the weakest of all six made to date:
You’re going to find that many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view.A comment to a post I wrote on how I feel the prison at Guantanamo Bay is unworthy of us as a nation was as follows:
-George Lucas, Star Wars Episode VI: Return of the Jedi
Yeah, right on target, Jack.Except, to qualify as POWs under Article 4 of the Geneva Convention, al Qaeda and Taliban detainees would have to have satisfied four conditions:
1. They would have to be part of a military hierarchy.
2. They would have to have worn uniforms or other distinctive signs visible at a distance
3. They would have to have carried arms openly.
4. They would have to have conducted their military operations in accordance with the laws and customs of war.
So, maybe not so on target.
And you know what? That awful, evil BushHitler even decided that the prison at Guantanamo would treat Taliban prisoners under the Geneva convention, because Afghanistan was a signatory to the convention. Bastard, isn't he?
My response is:
I am not saying we should be adhering to the Geneva Convention for ANY reason other than it is the morally right thing to do, REGARDLESS of what our enemies do or how they behave.
Otherwise, if we let THEM set the standards for OUR behavior, how are we different?
I also have never used the term "BusHitler", nor have I ever called the current President a bastard.
---
It appears that many are allowing their point of view, and their defense of it, to cloud their reason, their judgement, and their very perceptions of right, wrong, and what is honorable behavior.
I can find no other reason for this defense of behaviors that are indefensible, a defense that essentially says, "They piss on our flag, and they desecrate their own supposed holy book, so it's OK if we do it too."
When I was a child, my parents always said in response to my statements of "everyone is doing it" with a rebuke of "and if they jump of a bridge, will you do it too?"
The right-wing once fought against moral relativism, and still does when it is convenient for the advancement of their side and their agenda.
Apparently, though, when moral relativism is convenient for them, they defend it beyond all reason.
Although I describe myself as a left-leaning centrist who tries to be a moderate, I find myself in a position of explaining concepts of honor and absolute standards in response to those who could reasonably be described as at the least right-leaning.
I have in the past noted how the extreme rhetoric of our current age resembles that of immediately before the American Civil War, and what I see now only strengthens the similarities.
The "other" is demonized, even if they are fellow Americans.
The attitude of "us versus the-rest-of-the-world, with the rest of the world now including all dissenting Americans" now prevails.
I am not forecasting another Civil War such as that which we suffered upon the election of Abraham Lincoln, the infrastructure and fundamental issues are different.
However...
The intolerance, intransigence, and excessive rhetoric of the time and how what is present now so closely resembles it can teach us a lesson that I expect and fear will be ignored.
We allowed the intolerance to get so intense in 1861 that in a very literal sense, brother fought against brother in a conflict that is still the most murderous in our entire bloody history, where more Americans were killed than in any other conflict, with over half a million dead in both the North and the South.
Now, we fling similar overheated rhetoric at each other, after all that has happened in the last four years, after the deaths, after the revelations, after the fact, denying any inconvenient facts in our quest for winning.
Winning at any and all costs.
No thought as to what consequences might arise, and what costs might be too dear to pay.
I do not believe in "my side" winning at any cost, if that cost is to destroy the principles upon which my country was founded.
I believe in both honor and fundamental principles.
I have principles upon which I base my opposition to the prison at Guantanamo Bay, principles that are independent of how our enemies behave, because I do believe in absolute standards, even if I am willing to listen, discuss, and upon occasion alter my standards based upon what others believe in strongly.
Those who choose to defend immoral and dishonorable acts based upon how our enemies behave are only fooling themselves with the moral relativism they themselves claim to despise when they see it in others.
I often wonder where my country is going when I read the defense of the indefensible by those who claim to have a higher patriotism than anyone else.
I often wonder where my country is going when I read accusations of "excessive idealism" and "not recognizing reality" from those who claim to be "realists", despite their unrealistic view of the world as evidenced by the reality that has arisen in the last four years.
Am I infallible?
No, I am not, nor do I claim to be.
However, neither are those who present themselves as such, although there are many who if you read their writings appear to admit no possibility of any fallibility on their own part.
Is there a conclusion to this commentary?
No, there is not, although I wish I could find one, because it would be comforting.
Instead, we are left only with uncertainty and doubt, and I am left wondering what to think of those who I number as friends who seem to be intent upon defending what I find indefensible.
In the end, we are left only with uncertainty and doubt, the dual curses of thought...
Sorry, no comfort offered here, only questions.
Technorati Tags: commentary, fundamentals, opinion, personal, politics, quotes, some thoughts
Posted by Jack Grant at 22:59 on 12 June 2005Jack,
I was agreeing with your premise(s) in the previous article when I wrote "right on target." I believe we have no business telling any other country what to do from our American moral highground when we are perpetrating crimes, we as a nation, should abhor. We certainly jump on the bandwagon to proscecute "war criminals" in other countries. Holding people in detention without an attorney or any outside contact is criminal itself. There are people in these razor-wired camps who have been incarcerated for 3 or more years - it's just not right. I refuse to treat anyone, including an enemy, with brutality. Which I believe you agree with if I'm not mistaken. It isn't honorable. Kill 'em (metaphorically speaking)with kindness I say.
By the by, I never have used the term Busthitler. And, I really dislike and distrust GWB. Its a hideous analogy. I don't have time to write more now, so I'll read your post better tomorrow and when I have some sleep. Take care. Peace.
Posted by: Sinequanon at June 13, 2005 07:28 AMJack, I just read everything on your main link. It's good, I like the passion. :)
There's a lot of stuff about indefensible this and that, but I can't seem to figure out precisely what it is that you think is indefensible. I say this honestly, not as some debating game.
What, specifically, do you think is being done today that is indefensible?
What specific alternate behavior do you favor?
Since honor is very important to you (and me), what are the implications of your recommendations as regards honor?
I'm seeing a lot of complaining, and even fairly passinate name-calling, about what other folks are advocating. What do *you* advocate as solutions to our difficult problems?
Posted by: DSmith at June 14, 2005 01:08 AM





