Fear and hate
by Jack GrantMany, especially those on the right-wing, are not only correlating but seeking evidence for how the riots and gang-coordinated violence in France might be related to Islam.
Correlation, despite our desire for an orderly and understandable universe, does not prove causality.
In this particular case, it is similar to the violence in the late 1960s and early 70s in the US, where there were riots that originated in areas that were mainly inhabited by people whose skin color is commonly described as black.
Does this mean that blacks are inherently violent? The predominant view today is only a racist would say so.
However, it is apparently perfectly acceptable to say that since the riots in France are occurring in regions inhabited predominantly by Muslims (many if not most of whom are African and NOT Arab, by the way) somehow proves that Islam is inherently violent.
Yet, somehow, this thinking is acceptable, even though the logic differs not at all from the “logic” of the latter half of the 20th century used to justify all kinds of racism.
I have a theory about racism; it is a way for people to avoid the hard work of thinking.
I have a theory about hate; it is a way for people to avoid the hard work of thinking.
We should seek out the true origins of the riots, and as has been written elsewhere, I suspect we will discover they have far more in common with the origins of the riots in the United States of the later half of the 20th century than with some grand Islamist conspiracy to overthrow “the West.”
A brief aside, “the West” was a convenient label for the Cold War but no longer applies in the post-Soviet world; something we forget at our peril is what Charles de Gaulle once said to the President of Israel when the unfortunate President expressed gratitude to de Gaulle for France being a good ally of Israel, “France has no friends, no allies, only interests.”
(Another aside, we should never forget that the greatest French leader since Napoleon, who was really Corsican, also said, “You may be sure that the Americans will commit all the stupidities they can think of, plus some that are beyond imagination.”)
The riots in France are not, when examined fundamentally, about Islam.
Despite the official policy of France to enforce and insist upon integration, the reality is that integration is far, far, far more difficult than it is in the United States.
Many if not most of those in the US will not understand this, because it is completely foreign to their experience (quasi-pun semi-intended).
Europe, while providing the origin of most of the immigrants that the United States absorbed in the 19th and 20th centuries, is NOT the same as the United States. In Europe, national identity is provided at least in part by ethnicity, far more than is true in the US, even with the racial issues that persist 35 years after the peak of the movement for equal civil rights in the US for ALL, regardless of skin color or origin.
To put it simply, since Europe has not had to evolve in the same way as the United States, where even though insufficient the US has indeed at least partially acknowledged that we have been and in some ways persist in being unfair to groups of people through no fault of their own, that lack of evolution has hobbled the governments and societies of Europe when it comes to recognizing and integrating immigrants.
The riots in France (and other places in Europe) are not because of Islam.
They are because despite the stated intentions and goals of the governments, true integration has not occurred for reasons that are beyond the control of governments.
Does this mean that the culture of the US is somehow better than that of Europe?
Perhaps… yet we should never forget that the culture of the US arose from Europe.
We should never forget that the culture of the US has benefited in ways not yet recognized from immigrants, even those from Mexico that are continually decried by many.
We integrate them without a government mandate.
Europe does not integrate them despite government mandates.
I have seen the results of both schemes, first hand.
I have dated people who were immigrants or daughters of immigrants to the US from Mexico.
I have met and had deep discussions with folks who are immigrants or children of immigrants of parents from Africa or other regions into France.
The fundamental point:
The violence in France and elsewhere in Europe has little if anything to do with fundamentalist Islam or Islamist ideology. It is more closely related to the riots in the United States of the late 1960s and early 1970s of an economic underclass that is unfairly excluded from the workforce.
It is an old adage in Christian-based society, idle hands find the Devil’s work.
Why is this so hard to understand?
Actually, it is not hard to understand, but people see what they WANT to see.
Therefore, right-wingers seeking reasons to spread hate say that the riots are due to Islamist influences.
Seeing what you want to see, a peril that we all face, yet which extremists seem to be particularly susceptible to, unsurprisingly.
I personally have some family issues that have given me some perspective on the world at large, especially when it comes to the long-term.
Yet, I cannot let this pass with the right-wing in their oh-so-obvious salivations to attribute the riots to some vast, Islamist conspiracy pass unacknowledged.
There is far, far more than first appears to the riots in France.
I ask you to look deeper.
Do not succumb to those asking you to follow the easy path of fear and hate.
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Based on your firsthand experience in France, what role do you think that their welfare state model contributes to these riots?
By JonBuck on 11.06.05 22:52
I agree that there are many reasons why the riots in France are occurring.
I think the forced separation of immigrants (who happen to be mostly Muslim) into virtual ghettos is partly to blame.
The fact that the French have not even bothered to police those communities has something to do with it also.
And the 40% unemployment rates among the Muslim youth is not helping, either.
Even if France gives them enough money to live, these people have nothing to do but grumble = the welfare state is as much a reason as anything else, methinks.
I also think that if there is a great huge bunch of immigrants who happen to be Muslim in any European country who have nothing to do (unlike the Muslims in the USA, most of whom are very gainfully employed) because of the European screwy work rules, crummy economy due to socialism and over-taxation of everyone - they will riot, also.
So I partly agree with you.
But oddly, I saw a member of CAIR today on the TV proclaim the the riots were partly because of the French rudeness to Muslims in regards to not allowing Muslim girls to wear scarves to school.
He said that the difference between the French and the Americans is that the French have pretty much banned religion, while our constitution is meant to allow us to worship as we wish.
So I believe that part of the reason is that the rioters are Muslim and the French disregard for Muslim sensibilities is just one more straw on that camel’s back.
It is a shame, Jack, that you have become such a name caller - that right wing to you means bad, evil zoot.
Your technorati tags are quite telling.
But I guess one does what one must to get lots of visitors.
By Beth on 11.06.05 23:44
Well Done Jack.
By Sine.Qua.Non on 11.06.05 23:52
Jack
My fear is that the neocons and the radical Christian right in the US have a vested interest in making the riots in France part of the Islamic Jihad. As you correctly state it is not, yet. The dangerous talk from the right may well contribute to making it a part of the “holy war”.
By Ron Beasley on 11.07.05 00:04
The riots are based on lack of jobs, lack of opportunity, lack of hope. Not unlike Watts circa 1965. These immigrants are jealous of the fatcat welfare system the natives enjoy. They want a job, or a suckle at the welfare teat. They get nothing.
Now: why? Because their culture refuses to let them assimilate, and France, and Europe in general, has refused to make them assimilate. So, insofar as their culture won’t let them become full-fledged members of society, you can blame it on Islam, or Pan-Arabism, or whatever you want. Islam does not equal savagery. But Islamic dogma perforce creates the environment for it. That is evident. Blame the French, but I’m not seeing much civil disobedience here. And I will not, cannot condone the behavior.
By Velociman on 11.07.05 00:27
So can I take this as a stake thru the heart of the policies of those who want to move the US policies closer to Europes? If Europe does not integrate despite government mandates, you think we cowboys and rednecks will? If their economic policies don’t give immigrants a fair shot at a decent life? Won’t the abismal growth and high unemployment rates kill one of the best things about this country, immagration?
“..right-wingers seeking reasons to spread hate…”
Frankly this is uncalled for. You generalize a whole group of people with your internal view them. Just like you accuse them of doing. Its offensive to me that anyone would even consider my actions as motivated by hatred.
By wilky on 11.07.05 02:56
[...] Jack says: The riots in France are not about Islam. [...]
By The Politburo Diktat » Blog Archive » Riots Worsen in French Cities on 11.07.05 04:00
THere is something to the non-integration thing. A Cambodian family I know first moved to France after the Khemer Rouge took over. 5 kids, 2 born in France. Despite speaking 5 languages fluently(including French and Mandarin) and having been an aide to the Finance Minister of Cambodia Mr. Sun couldn’t get a job higher than taxi driver in France for twenty years before he moved his family to California(where I met his kids and went to college with them). That’s fairly farqed up.
BUt there’s more to it than that. It’s Rodney King all over again. A bunch of made up grievances tacked onto real ones. I keep hearing some spokesman for a French Moslem org. saying that the rioters are demanding ‘dignity’. Huh? That’s not something that can be confered by gov’t. Eisenhower sent the 82nd but he couldn’t order up dignity for Southern Blacks. Either they had it or they didn’t, and those people had it by the bucketful. It stems from within. But then again, ‘dignity’ has become code language anyways.
I’m very serious about the RK analogy. In some part the Moslems of France see themselves as ‘victims’. That’s what this is about, rage about being powerless. Not a cabal. BUT, being Moslem has something to do with it.
And we do have similar laws to the head scarf ban here in the US. Try being a public school teacher or faculty and wear a crucifix. It’s ‘prosylitization’. Thank you rabid, insecure, intolerant, secularist leftists for that one(returning fire, Jack. I’ll be at JoA’s if you want me for anything. ;0)).
By ry on 11.07.05 18:50
Thoughts on the Paris Intifada
As always comes in the world of the blog we tend to form two camps of people on an issue. I have weighed in on what *in my mind* is the most important event of this year but other bloggers have weighed in. Dean has weighed in on the more skeptical si…
By Inside Larry's head on 11.07.05 18:55
Fuck the French.
By Kat on 11.07.05 21:24
Jack,
It is simply beyond comprehension that anyone with your intelligence and even a modicum of sense would go to such lengths to excoriate those who point out the obvious connection between those who are rioting and burning, night after night, and the religious extremism that encourages, if not demands, such violence, without a word of criticism for those who burn and pillage, not just their home suburbs of Paris, but towns and cities all over France, and now Belgium and Holland as well, all like so many rampaging 8th Century barbarians.
You castigate those who presume to label Islam or Islamic fundamentalism as “inherently violent??? but when was the last time a Catholic Pope or an Episcopalian Archbishop exhorted those in his congregation to kill infidels, or cut off the hand of a thief, or stone to death a woman caught in an extra-marital affair? What other society condones and encourages the “honor killing??? of disobedient daughters? What Baptist is guilty of blowing himself up in a pizza parlor or on a bus in an effort to kill as many non-Baptists as possible? What Buddhist or Hindu?
The Associated Press is reporting that the rioting has spread to some 300 towns, and rioters are approaching the “Grim Milestone??? of a total of 5000 cars burned in the violence, none, presumably, belonging to the rioters. Shops, warehouses, several churches, a daycare, and a number of schools and a shopping mall have all been torched. Police have been fired upon, and injured, and one unidentified man has died from injuries he received when he was beaten while trying to extinguish a fire near his home. A 13 month old child was hospitalized with head injuries after being hit by thrown rocks. Meanwhile, police are reported to have discovered a bomb factory, with some 50 finished Molotov cocktails and the materials for making several hundred more. Hardly the sort of cache one would expect among spontaneous economic or political protest warriors, such as you compare these rioters to. Among the explosives, a quantity of black face masks were found, apparently similar to those worn by those “protestors??? who cut off the head of Daniel Pearl, Michael Berg, and several dozen other “infidels.???
The Union for Islamic Organizations of France has issued a fatwa against the rioting, but that only begs the question why such a fatwa would be necessary if the rampaging rioters were not Muslim in the first place.
Your tirade against “right wing extremists??? is not your first, certainly, and doubtless will not be your last, but I wonder that with your obvious intelligence, you are yet unaware of your own rather blatant hypocrisy in decrying those who would impute motive to the actions of others, all the while doing the very same thing by stating that “right-wingers seeking to spread hate say that the riots are due to Islamist influence.???
So, those who disagree with your conclusions about the causes and instigations of these riots are guilty of seeking to spread hate? And are, in your gimlet view, “extremists???? Hardly the sort of reasoned moderation you normally preach.
Is my alarm at Islamist violence, from Brussels to Bangkok, from London’s West End to the western shores of Mindanao, from Bali to Beirut, unacceptably bigoted and “extremist,??? while your measured rationalization for the ongoing violence somehow justifies labeling my motivation as hate-fill and racist?
Before you get too carried away with the sanctimony, kindly recall that while the Bible does not say that “idle hands are the Devil’s workshop,??? it does say, ironically, “Let him who is without sin cast the first stone,??? a warning to both Islamist Jihadis, and their various apologists, as well.
Bat One
By Bat One on 11.07.05 21:41
Did you people actually read Jack’s post? Because, if you did, you completely missed his point. Completely.
By Sine.Qua.Non on 11.08.05 02:12
I think the issues behind the rioting are probably too complex to categorize in one post. I also think that the reasons behind the rioting change from place to place and person to person, and if you asked an individual rioter why they started in the first place, the answer you got would depend on where the person you asked stands in the long “telephone” chain. You know the game.
It amazes me how, instead of standing together to try to understand what’s really happening, we’d rather argue about who’s right and who’s wrong about something that caused people (who we are not) to riot in the streets for 12 nights now….
By caltechgirl on 11.08.05 02:27
[...] The hand-wringers and kool-aid drinkers are out in full force. This blog, for example, goes on and on about what the riots are and are not about—wholly irrelevant points, since the rioters chose of their own free will to behave in a subhuman, criminal manner, and therefore, they and only they are responsible for their own behavior. [...]
By rightwingnation.com » Blog Archive » Put the Kool-Aid Down and Back Away on 11.08.05 13:37
The Doubtful Value of Duality
As Europe braces itself for what might be the 13th Day of Flames there is a wide range of thought upon the origins and eventual outcome of this conflagration.
By Committees of Correspondence on 11.08.05 15:10
French Auto-Destruct.
Oh, the car-manity! Like all the rest of the (what is it now? 3 trillion?) bloggers I have been following the scene in France, but have more-or-less held my tongue because I was fairly convinced that no matter what I
By Bloggledygook on 11.08.05 21:03
Bravo Jack
A non-value added comment I know, but I needed to say (type) it! ;)
By Rick S on 11.09.05 00:38
Fantastic post, Jack. You are right on target.
By Vavoom on 11.09.05 15:05
[...] There are many asking “Why?” with respect to the violence, and many trying to use a false correlation to root out some causality. When the true foundations underlying the riots are discussed, if they do not match the beliefs and preferences of some, they claim that the explanation is somehow “excusing” the rioters for their criminal actions. [...]
By Random Fate » Some thoughts both personal and more general on the riots underway in France on 11.11.05 19:19
[...] The events now apparently over provided an opportunity for pundits to wax on about what it means for Europe. [...]
By Cold Hard Wonk » Nuit de silence. . . on 11.17.05 17:05