There is absolutely NO cause to celebrate at the moment
by Jack GrantWhile I struggle to put together something coherent, trying to extract order out of the chaos, the Bull Moose has written something that describes my feelings regarding the current state of affairs quite well:
Whatever one’s views on the wisdom of the war, it was not the result of a neo-con cabal exploiting forged Italian documents on behalf of a foreign power as some have insinuated. Democratic and Republican Presidents saw Saddam as a threat to Middle East stability. Democratic and Republican Presidents thought Saddam possessed or was seeking to obtain weapons of mass destruction. And Democrats and Republicans believed we could not risk Saddam remaining in power in a post 9/11 world.
Agree or disagree with the judgment to go to war, it was not the result of an Oliver Stone-like conspiracy. And it’s hard to believe that a CIA operative was all that concerned about her identity being revealed and overseas contacts compromised when she and her husband posed for a photo spread in Vanity Fair.
Indictments and then convictions will mean that this Administration, like too many that came before it, has violated a sacred public trust. If officials are charged with criminal activity, President Bush should, for once, throw away Rove’s polarizing political playbook, clean house and engage in coalition governance. This is a highly unlikely scenario, but one can always hope for a miracle.
This could be a bleak week for our nation. Who are the leaders that will reverse this despicable dynamic?
An FYI to those out there slavering in anticipation of indictments of their favorite enemies, I find the use of the word “fitzmas” to be despicable, no matter how supposedly “well deserved” any indictments and punishments may appear.
This is not a time of joy, this is a tragedy, regardless of who is in power.
This is a sign of failure in our system.
This is a time when we should mourn because of that failure, not celebrate at the downfall of some supposed “enemies” who are in the end our fellow citizens.
This is part and parcel of the united in United States. We are all in this together.
Anyone who cannot understand this simple concept, there is no further point in discussion with them.
Do the math.
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Well said.
I do think that there is an ex-ante and an ex-poste issue here. Ex-ante, you are absolutely right; the entire episode is a disgrace. And of course, we should feel sad. But ex-poste, this is the settling up thing that gets the ex-ante incentives right.
By bh on 10.26.05 20:12
I did the Math. The one element missing in your story is that although democrats and republicans might agree on the need for aggressive wars, the rest of the world didn’t (as at least half of own your nation didn’t and who are in fact unrepresented). In order to get away with it, America lied to the international community. So there WAS an Oliver Stone like conspiracy. First there was 9/11 to sell the war on terror (oh, and Iraq) to the American public, then there were the lies to sell the Iraq war to the world.
At this point nobody trusts Americans any more. They bow to their will because they have to. Nobody wants his economy wrecked, be bombed off the map, be tortured in Guantanamo or Abu Ghraib. After all, you’re with the US or you are with the terrorists.
That’s the bigger picture: The world thinks Bush is a fascist, and since nobody in the US seems to be doing a real effort to stop the man from his evil doings, well… do the math.
By OutsideObserver on 10.26.05 20:26
Let’s define “celebration.” I will celebrate the sense of some justice being done, of wrongs being brought to the light, of those who believe in the politics of personal destruction being brought to account for illegal and immoral acts. I will celebrate that in a democracy, truth can eventually prevail. I will celebrate something that could begin to re-establish sanity and health in a government and political process that has been extensively corrupted by the Republican machine.
For there to be unity, first there must be truth and justice. I will celebrate the justice in these indictments, not the revenge.
By Paul H on 10.26.05 20:29
While I agree with your points, I see this another way. Finally, on a grand scale, the rock that is the glossy marketed surface of our govenment (and in particular, in my view, the concervative philosophy) has been turned over to expose the worms of coruption and greed. While it may be a sad day for all who have lived in blissful ignorance of this, to those that have for a long time born the brunt of the concequences of these policies this can easily and justifibly be seen as a blessing. In my former nieghborhood, the poor and elderly routinely had to choice between food and medicine. In my current neighborhood the only difference is that those making these kind of choices are master’s students. The neighborhoods exposed to the masses in katrina are in every major city in the U.S., all poor, struggling and often without hope, but all vibrant with life, art, and intelegence dispite it all. To put it simply, there are a lot of people who have lived in this mess for a long, long time. Now that everyone else sees it, maybe we can finally get to cleaning it. And I, for one, welcome that.
By okcomputer1982 on 10.26.05 20:41
And it’s hard to believe that a CIA operative was all that concerned about her identity being revealed and overseas contacts compromised when she and her husband posed for a photo spread in Vanity Fair.
For the love of Almighty God, how often does it have to be pointed out they posed for the VF pictures AFTER SHE WAS OUTED.
AFTER.
Not before, when it would have mattered.
AFTER. When the damage was already done.
I also question the claim that the war wasn’t something cooked up by a neo-con cabal, when it so obviously was cooked up by a neo-con cabal. Yes, other leaders of other countries, and previous leaders of this one, thought Saddam was a potential threat, might have WMDs.
Here’s the kicker though: None of them thought the possibility was strong enough to warrant an unprovoked war.
None of them thought the possiblity was strong enough to warrant alienating allies, tossing international law out of the window, and undermining their own nations’ reputation.
None of them thought the possiblity was strong enough to warrant, let’s see now, 2000 US soldier deaths, 100,000+ Iraqi deaths, hundreds of thousands more maimed, orphaned, and widowed.
And none of them thought the possibility was strong enough to warrant undermining their own military institutions and intelligence apparatus.
Only the Bush Admin; only the neo-cons in the Bush Admin; only the neo-cons in the Bush Admin who were busily cooking up false evidence, and dismissing and defaming opponents, and disclosing the identity of CIA operatives and their front companies, and endangering the lives of everyone those operatives and front companies had worked with.
Am I going to be happy if Fitzgerald takes them all down?
You betcha. Because they betrayed my country.
By CaseyL on 10.26.05 20:46
While I usually respect the Moose, caseyl hits this one on the nose. The Iraq invasion, it’s aftermath, and the lies and crimes used to sell and perpetuate it, are not comparable to the actions and policies of the administrations prior to this.
By les on 10.26.05 21:39
No reason for joy
I’ve written about the morons who are celebrating the coming indictments of Bush administration officials here. Someone else, however, has written about it even more eloquently here.
To paraphrase a cliche, if you’re not part of the solution you’…
By The Skeptical Centrist on 10.26.05 22:38
WMD were only a part of the rationale for going to war. And they are probably buried in Syria. How does Wilson’s little tea-sipping excursion to Niger prove or disprove WMD? Bush’s State of the Union address merely said that British intelligence had evidence Saddam attempted to score uranium from Africa. That fact is still true. The fact that Plame was not a covert operative at the time of this supposed “outing” is incontravertible by any measure. It is an ugly thing when the bloodlust is up. Tell you what. We’ll give you Scooter Libby as a sacrificial lamb if you drown the pathetically insane Cindy Sheehan in a deep, deep well.
By Velociman on 10.27.05 00:13
Through out all this blarny this administration has said either your with us or your against the troops. At the same time all bills and ammendments for increase in the VA budget has been voted down mostly along party lines. The Sectary of Defence didn’t even care enough to sign the death letters himself. His own Tech workers who see him every day say he is a complete ass who cares about only his needs. Patten once said a soilders job was not to die for his country but to make the other guy die for his but yet our president says soldiers should find it an honor to die in this war. At the same time Bushes own VA appointies lie to the public about how many were wounded right before the 2004 election so Bush wouldn’t look bad. Now those same appointies have called for 1000 old claims to be looked at for fraud. Why because the President cares or maybe to slow down the procces of new soldiers getting on the VA’s rolles showing that this war has destroyed more lives then just 2000.
As a person who works on Vet issues and sees every day the damage done to many fine Americans (who are mostly republicans) I can’t wait to see this administration who says support the troops and then makes the troops buy their own protective gear, refuses to truley up the VA’s budget to reflect the needs of the soldgiers, and who hides the true cost of this war from the American people GO DOWN. This administrartion is not looking out for this country and its people it is looking out for it’s own needs and to prove their ideolge is right, even as all indicaters prove their ideas are wrong. (Spelling is not my strong suit)
By V on 10.27.05 10:47
See Jack?
They just don’t get it, do they? Even when you spell it out for them.
By Daniel Berczik on 10.27.05 12:06
The Sad State Of Our Union.
Seems all you have to do nowadays is express something less than giddy euphoria at the prospect that administration figures are about to be indicted for high crimes and misdemeanors and springs start poking through the sofa cushions. Over the
By Bloggledygook on 10.27.05 12:59
[...] I have already written of my disgust at the glee expressed by the left-wing, especially on weblogs, in the anticipation of any indictments that might result from the Fitzgerald investigation. [...]
By Random Fate » Clowns to the left of me… on 10.28.05 22:22